Former Foreign Ministry employees Jakub Osajda and Mateusz Pali confirmed their previous testimony during the confrontation before the investigation committee into the visa scandal. The head of the committee, Marek Sowa (KO), told PAP after the meeting that the witnesses’ testimonies would be assessed to determine their exact role in the whole process.
Today, the parliamentary investigative committee confronted two witnesses for almost four hours: former director of the Legal and Compliance Management Office of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Jakub Osajda, and Mateusz Pali, head of the political cabinet of the then Minister of Foreign Affairs Zbigniew Rau.
Confrontation at the committee
At the beginning of the confrontation, the chairman of the commission, Marek Sowa (KO), spent several dozen minutes reading out the free statements of both witnesses before the investigative commission – Osajda testified in March and Pali in July.
Osajda testified in March that “United Right tried for months to cover up the visa scandal and sweep it under the carpet.” He stressed that he was involved in political games at the highest level without his will, and that PiS’s main goal was to prevent the scandal from dominating the election campaign. As he said, after his dismissal from the Foreign Ministry (15 September 2023), Pali repeatedly contacted him and his pregnant wife “to make sure he did not contact the media” and that Pali threatened him with destruction. Osajda also said that the decision to dismiss him from his job at the Foreign Ministry was taken at PiS headquarters by a member of the party’s election staff, which he learned about from Pali.
““Manipulated reality”
In turn, Pali assured during the July hearing that he had not threatened Osajda, and that the decision to dismiss him from his job was not taken by the PiS election headquarters. He also stated that Osajda’s testimony represented a manipulated reality and was a lie in some places.
In July, Pali also reported to the committee, among other things: meeting with Osajda at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in October 2023. During this meeting, Osajda would file a lawsuit against the ministry for his dismissal and propose a settlement to resolve the legal dispute amicably. Pali testified that during the meeting, Osajda “retrieved several packages of medicine from his briefcase, indicating that he was receiving psychotropic medication in connection with psychiatric treatment.” Pali also requested that the committee check Osajda’s medical history, as he may have been under the influence of medication while testifying.
This is crucial to the evidentiary value of his words
said Pali then.
Both Osajda and Pali confirmed their testimony before the investigative commission.
Osajda assured: “I have never undergone psychiatric treatment, I have never had any psychological problems.” He also noted that in September 2023, when his name was linked to a major media scandal, he was under enormous pressure.
Sowa announced that Pali’s request to review his treatment history had been withdrawn.
The Kobos Case
During the confrontation, the issue of Edgar Kobos, assistant to the then deputy head of the Foreign Ministry, Piotr Wawrzyk, was raised. Pali testified in July that Osajda tried to arrange his meeting with Kobos in April 2023, but that this ultimately fell through.
However, Osajda said that the initiator of this meeting was Pali, who stated that during the talks he would present him with investment proposals in Ukraine in the field of Kobos’ main activity, namely agriculture.
A significant portion of the committee meeting was devoted to the exchange of messages, which both witnesses had to regularly delete from their devices. In March, Osajda testified that Pali had repeatedly contacted him and his pregnant wife since the day he was fired “to make sure he did not contact the media.” The witness claims that he had received similar messages before the House of Representatives elections, that is, until October 15.
He gave me examples of PiS politicians who were destroyed after contacting the media and told them well that they could destroy me and my family too, Osajda said in March.
Differing assessment of the situation
During the meeting, Osajda stated that relations with Pali were “friendly” before September 15.
The information that my name first appeared in the media was given to me by Pali on September 1
– he reported.
He added that Pali suggested sending him a draft correction of the article linking Osajda to the so-called visa scandal.
This started to fade after a few days when it became apparent that these were the guidelines from above and that there would be no official announcement or referral.
– Osajda noted.
The pivotal day would be September 18, when Osajda’s wife received a message from Pali’s wife warning the former director of the State Department’s legal office “not to go to the media.” When asked if he considered the words a threat, Osajda testified that he considered the message “quite likely.”
However, Pali stated that on September 18, the contact between the witnesses’ wives was initiated by the Osajdas. He judged that the messages from Agnieszka Osajda were “tirades”, with palpable regret on her part. He also assured that his words were not a threat, but only advice.
Among the discrepancies was the question of accepting the position of ambassador to Iceland. According to Pali’s testimony, Osajda proposed his wife for the position, which he denied. There were also contradictions about the details of Osajda’s proposal to take this position.
Authorized Representative – Vice President of Kielce
During the hearing, Paweł Szrot (PiS) asked whether the Osajda representative currently holds a public or political office, and where Osajda himself currently works. Both questions were waived by the chair of the committee.
I am not a member or nominee of a PO or a political party
– said Piotr Rogula, the representative of Osajda.
Szrot pointed out that Rogula is the vice-president of Kielce. Sowa, in turn, noted that Osajda appeared at the committee hearing in March with Rogula as his representative.
Sowa summarised the confrontation, telling PAP that the commission should assess the testimonies based on the previous ones, as well as documents and testimonies from other witnesses.
“To investigate what exactly the role of both directors was in the whole process,” he said. “Today it is very clear that at least one of the witnesses has downplayed his role at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
– Sowa added.
At the end of the meeting, Sowa decided to exclude PiS MP Piotr Kaleta from the meeting, who allegedly insulted MP Maria Janyska (KO).
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husband/DAD
Source: wPolityce