OUR INTERVIEW. Tusk on the separation of church and state and “questions ladies and gentlemen”. Prof. Domański: weird, radical statements

†Very strange statements, because they rather point to very radical actions. And Donald Tusk has so far avoided such radical statements that discourage the potential electorate. Until now, the leader of the Civic Platform (Platforma Obywatelska) has been more focused on attracting voters,” said Prof. Henryk Domański, a sociologist from the Polish Academy of Sciences.

Prof. Henryk Domanski: A very strange statement, because it rather points to very radical actions. And Donald Tusk has so far avoided such radical statements that discourage the potential electorate. So far, the Civic Platform leader has been trying to attract voters.

These last statements are so surprising that it is doubtful whether this is factually correct or whether he actually did anything similar. This is a surprising statement, not very suitable for a good politician who wants to attract and expand the electorate rather than discourage it.

In the context of the ‘separation of church and state’, the former prime minister immediately assured his supporters that he does not care about culture war, division and hatred. But won’t such announcements in themselves lead to a cultural war, deepening social divisions?

But let’s not exaggerate with this “war”. Because first of all: Tusk should actually carry out his statements, but there are hardly any indications that it will work.

This statement could be explained or justified by the fact that he wants to somehow consolidate the Civic Platform electorate, although it is a rather risky proposition, because in fact they are either non-religious or religious people, but in opposed to the Catholic Church. This is the PO electorate and the hypothesis is that Tusk wants to consolidate the people who would vote for him. Only that it does not aim to unite the opposition and expand the electorate.

Because, as I understand it, in order to carry out this plan, of which he is a staunch advocate, namely the unification of five opposition parties, he would also have to convince Szymon Holownia, who for years was identified at least to some extent with the Catholicism, and also with the PSL. Would he attract these coalition members and their constituents with the postulate of separating the church from the state?

The PSL electorate will probably not be encouraged, but we can actually say that this group does not count too much, as the support for the People’s Party has not exceeded 3-4 percent lately.

Holownia’s electorate is easier, because a part of it is certainly people who are opposed to the church and want it to be separated from the state, just like the electorate of the left. When it comes to this kind of action, maybe it will convince voters.

And how would you react to the findings of our portal, which show that the President of Warsaw, Rafał Trzaskowski, would like to leave the Civic Platform and build his own group, perhaps joining forces with the left or Poland by 2050?

I think this is factually correct. On the one hand, Rafał Trzaskowski is aware that Donald Tusk’s return has not improved the PO’s ratings, everyone knows that the current PO president is not attractive to the electorate, since last July, when Tusk returned to the PO, nothing has changed in this.

On the other hand, Trzaskowski still has the ambition to play an independent role on the political stage, and secondly, several studies of his position on the confidence scale indicate that the Warsaw president is indeed capable of a lot of to attract larger electorate than Tusk. Especially when it comes to presidential elections, because here Trzaskowski would certainly have a better chance than Tusk. So I think there’s a good chance this will happen.

It seems that there is a belief in public opinion that Donald Tusk is a more conservative politician (at least he seems to be compared to the governor of the capital), and Rafał Trzaskowski – more left-wing. Perhaps this announcement of the separation of the Church from the state and society would be an expression of a certain rivalry with Rafał Trzaskowski, showing that “Tusk is not as conservative as he is painted”?

In my opinion, Rafał Trzaskowski’s main asset, which he is probably well aware of, is that he represents a new, young generation. He is younger than the PO leader and therefore probably more attractive. All critical opinions about Donald Tusk can be summed up in the way he has learned nothing, he cannot adapt to the changing reality and after all a lot has changed on the political scene in the last eight years, people expect something new.

Rafał Trzaskowski symbolizes a “new wave”, or, as our policy says, a new opening. From this point of view, it can count on support, this path may prove effective and the mayor of Warsaw is unlikely to give up. All the more so because in my opinion, even in the Civic Platform, we are dealing with a certain discrepancy, moreover very clearly, a fight between different factions of the Platform, mainly between those who support Tusk and Trzaskowski, because at the moment we deal with such a dichotomy when it comes to zones of political influence.

Is Donald Tusk “worn out” as a politician?

A politician never really wears out, here we are rather dealing with a certain degree. This phenomenon is gradual, and it is also important whether it reaches public opinion. In the opinion of the public, it probably is, because Donald Tusk compares himself to Trzaskowski – a representative of the younger generation of politicians, who was so successful in the presidential elections. In 2005 Donald Tusk lost to Lech Kaczyński, although he should have won. Rafał Trzaskowski joined the group of candidates at the last minute in 2020, despite the fact that he was basically doomed to lose, and yet managed to achieve such a high result.

The Civic Platform leader reacts very nervously to the disclosure of the note about the plans to sell Lotos to the Russians and any mention of it. Is it a burden to Civic Platform, or maybe to Donald Tusk himself?

I think this is the biggest burden for Donald Tusk and is directed against him. All signals passed on to Polish society by the public media are intended to discredit and discredit Tusk. However, they are not addressed to Rafał Trzaskowski, who, moreover, somehow does not really defend Tusk, despite the fact that other PO leaders do.

Thank you for the interview.

Interview with Joanna Jaszczuk