Sarah Babiker: “There is a whole ideological system that makes it possible for people to lend themselves to exploitation”

Universal Basic Income, which recommends meeting the basic needs of the entire population, remains a highly questioned proposition by certain sectors. Why? Why?

There are a few things. As a general rule, the idea of ​​getting an economic sum without doing anything in return is very difficult to envision, we have deeply internalized the hard-working paradigm as something deserved. Like a moral position, they cannot give it to you; and if someone gives you something for free, it raises suspicion as if you are producing parasites. There is a whole ideological system that makes it possible for people to lend themselves to exploitation. On the other hand, there are people with endless economic possibilities, and it is a class struggle after all: there are enough for everyone, there are people who should have less. Tackling the rise in the minimum wage is already difficult, imagine guaranteeing that people have the basics to live, which makes them more independent, more autonomous.

Another major criticism is that it discourages job seeking, but there are successful examples of its viability.

There are studies of economists who have been working on this for years and showing that it is totally feasible. Beyond that, it’s a matter of common sense. There are people who have amassed resources to live millions of lives. I like to bring the economy down to the family scale: No one in a household would let one son have to live 20 lives and another not have to live to the end of the week. Having enough resources, which hoarding is pointless, is immoral. Beyond the work done, some religious work is given a value. To think that a job has value in itself, that it is justified in itself, is to romanticize it. There are things people like to do, things we do well, things we need to realize and feel good about the world. The idea that if you give people money they will sit at home and scratch their bellies is filled with prejudice, paternalism and little faith in humanity.

Work on immigration issues. Does access to a Universal Basic Income disrupt the lives of immigrants who find it difficult to break this spiral of instability in their destination countries?

Of course. For most people, it would be difficult for them to survive, starting from scratch, without a family network or connections, without a home, if they simply relied on their job, without that help. Immigrants are certainly in the clear, lacking the intergenerational solidarity we can count on people facing the labor market in recent years. When you can’t bargain and can’t afford to wait two months for a better job, you’re totally open to exploitation. This UBI for immigrants will give them a foundation to negotiate, develop professionally and think long-term.

In A Coruña, there is Municipal Social Income for people in exclusion who do not have access to other benefits, including many immigrants. Does it dispel the myth of indiscriminate aid to immigrants through the Spaniards?

Of course. For many benefits such as Minimum Income, immigrants are asked to contribute for a year, a long registration is made, which they cannot prove with a formal contract because they do not have housing opportunities like locals. A Coruña’s Basic Income, I remember, included irregular migrants. There is no aid involving immigrants in an irregular situation, so the far-right myth is that you come here and they pay you. And if there were, it wouldn’t be bad to give people a basic right. Then people contribute, people work. Insisting on this idea and stigmatizing immigration does not coincide with reality and presents it as something negative that should not happen. It’s about guaranteeing basic rights to people living in your state.

It also argues that meeting basic needs will reduce women’s vulnerability in cases of abuse.

I believe anyone who cares about their environment is aware of this, no matter how many awareness campaigns there are, if you live with your abuser and don’t have enough resources to separate, liberate, lead an autonomous life and care for your sons. and their daughters, it is very clear that there are many women who cannot leave. Not only from their abuser, but also from the realities of the couple they didn’t want because they were in unsafe situations. It is an essential tool in the fight against gender-based violence and workplace harassment. How many shitty situations do people endure because they don’t quit their job and become homeless?