In an interview with PAP, the State Secretary of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Paweł Jabłoński talks to PAP about the quality of Polish-Israeli relations, security in the Middle East, the war in Ukraine and why the issue of compensation from Germany for losing in World War II is one of the next topics that can connect Poland and Israel.
READ ALSO: Deputy Minister Jabłoński raised the subject of Germany’s reparations in the Knesset! “Compensation for the victims is a common interest of Poland and Israel”
PAP: Minister, you came to Israel on Sunday. Relations between our countries have not been and are not easy. Our country still does not have an ambassador here. How would you describe our relations after your two-day visit to Israel?
Minister Jablonski: I think we are currently in one of the best moments when it comes to Polish-Israeli relations in recent years. Of course, they did not always go as well as we would like, which was due to the fact that, for example, the Israeli side ordered our ambassador a few years ago not to come back here. But we’ve been working together for many months to improve it, and we’ve had some positive results. First of all, we signed an agreement on educational travel. This is a breakthrough from our point of view, because first of all the problems with Israeli tour security in Poland will be solved. But the most important thing is that young people from Israel who come to Poland and young people from Poland who come to Israel can learn much more than before about history, tradition and culture, and not limit their stay to knowledge about the Holocaust. Knowledge about the Holocaust is very important, but the history of this German crime is not the whole of our relations. Young people from Poland and Israel can meet and get to know each other better. The main thing is to fight negative stereotypes. We have great potential to build these relations to the benefit of both Poland and Israel.
What will these meetings of young people from Poland and Israel look like?
We want to give them a lot of freedom, it’s not about some politician writing a script of what young people are supposed to do together. We want to give them the chance to meet each other, to get to know each other, to experience something new. Actually, we are very similar. We are interested in the same things, we have the same applications on the phone, we watch the same movies on Netflix. This is what young people are most interested in, and they don’t necessarily focus only on visiting museums. Of course, museums are important, but it is known that it cannot be the whole. We want to leave this part only to them, that is, give them the opportunity to meet, because getting to know each other between people is in itself the most solid foundation of relations between nations.
Yesterday in Jerusalem you met with the head of the National Security Council, Tzachi Hanegbi. You talked about security in the context of the situation in the Middle East and about the war in Ukraine fighting against the Russian invader. The Israelis have so far limited themselves mainly to humanitarian aid. Can we expect changes in this direction?
Israel has already done a little more, although not everything can be revealed. However, we are trying to encourage Israel, as well as all allies, to help even more, to support Ukraine in its defense, to equip it with equipment to defend itself, ie the elements it needs most now. We’re talking about aircraft, missile systems, anti-missile systems, anti-drone systems. This is the equipment that will allow Ukraine to win this war, and that is what we are aiming for. We encourage Israel and our other allies to do so, we have a common interest here. Russia poses a threat not only in our part of the world, but also through its destabilizing actions in other places, including the Middle East, through its actions in Syria, but not only; Russian-Iranian cooperation is known.
The situation in the Middle East is becoming increasingly dangerous. The ghost of war seems real. What does Polish diplomacy have to say about this?
For Poland, the most important thing is to respect international law. Whether in Europe, the Middle East or Africa. The standards are the same for everyone and must be respected in the same way. Therefore, if, for example, Israel violates international law, we can be critical of Israel, and we have done so many times before, but at the same time we emphasize that Israel, as a state under constant threat from terrorist attacks, also if attempts at destabilization by other countries, has an absolute right to defense. He has the right to defend himself by taking measures necessary to ensure this security. And in that respect, we stand out in the European Union, because there are many countries in Europe whose policies give the impression that they are questioning this right. We need stable partners like Israel in this region.
On Wednesday you will go to Ramallah to meet representatives of the Palestinian Authority. The current escalation of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is judged by observers to be the most serious in at least several years. What is our country’s position in this conflict?
The Oslo Accord, which is not fully respected, must be respected, as must the UN resolutions that define borders. This is something everyone should respect. However, it is important that both governments engage in activities that reduce tension, aggression and radical tendencies – in Israel and Palestine. If we are dealing with attempts to justify terrorism by some Palestinian politicians or to justify the aggressive actions of settlers by some Israeli politicians, that is not right, because it does not serve to solve this conflict, on the contrary – it inflames it on. We believe that the most appropriate solution is a two-state solution, ie the solution envisaged by the UN resolution, and that is what we should strive for. The issue of respecting human rights is crucial, and we are talking here not only about the issue of Muslims and Jews, but also about the situation of Christians who are also going through difficult times in Jerusalem, because they are under pressure, attempts are being made to take their property. We will also support the Christian community in this. Yesterday I met with the Patriarch of the Greek Orthodox Church, Theophilos III, who described the situation. From Poland’s point of view, the situation of the Christians in Jerusalem is one of the priorities.
We’ll have our talk in Tel-Aviv, and you’ll be leaving for Jerusalem in a minute. What are your plans for tonight?
In Jerusalem, together with the Institute of National Remembrance and the Menachem Begin Center, we are opening an exhibition dedicated to the fate of the Anders army and the Poles during World War II. We therefore operate not only in the field of official diplomacy, but also in the field of public diplomacy. We reach the Israeli public with exhibitions, cultural initiatives that teach about history and what Poland experienced during World War II. For us, this community of experiences as a victim of Nazi Germany is absolutely fundamental. Sometimes they try to play us off – by pitting Poles against Jews and Jews against Poles, by emphasizing the animosity between us, when in fact we have a common experience of German crimes against our nations and we should also be together on this matter must occur. Work for education about the Holocaust and other crimes of World War II. So that the younger generations have knowledge about them, to avoid repetition of these crimes in the future.
Minister Rau said that we are talking to the Israeli authorities about their participation in the process of compensating Germany for World War II losses. Did you also discuss this issue during your visit to Israel?
Yes. We are discussing this with the Israeli side. We handed over our loss report, our calculations and inquired what action we were taking against Germany. We say this very sincerely to the Israeli side, as well as to other allies, because this is an issue of historical justice, and this issue is very important to Israel. Compensation to victims, people who lost their lives, their families, as well as people who lost their property. This case is one of the next topics that can bring Poland and Israel together, because we have a common interest here, and this interest is to ensure that no crime goes unpunished or without accountability, whether financial or property. This is actually the principle. I believe that if we continue our efforts, cooperation between our countries in this area can also bring great results for Poland and Israel, and for solving this still unresolved problem.
Today in the Knesset you met the chairman of the Israeli-Polish parliamentary friendship group, Amit Halevi. What were you talking about?
We discussed the most important elements of our relationship. The question of educational travel, how it will work in practice. We also discussed cooperation in international fora, Poland’s support for Israel and Israel for Poland, security issues, i.e. Russian aggression against Ukraine, but also the actions of various countries and organizations in the Middle East that are threatening Israel’s security and stability in this threaten the region. . We are already on the right track, because we understand that much more binds us than separates us. While there are certainly issues where we can have a different perspective, there are certainly more issues where our interests are shared. Despite various attacks that are taking place and will certainly continue to take place – because both in Poland and in Israel there are political groups or circles that will want these relations not to be good – we will continue to work to make these relations as good as possible. the best, because it is simply in our common interest.
READ ALSO:
— Polish-Israeli consultations, eg to stop Russian aggression against Ukraine. Minister Jabłoński: We care about the memory of our Righteous
— Mularczyk writes to German politicians. It’s about reparations. “We hope that the report will become a starting point for conversations and discussions”
— More than half of Poles support reparations from Germany. 89 percent are in favor of continuing this policy. ZP voters and 19 percent. KO voters
Mon/PAP
Source: wPolityce