“Chairman Świrski is at least doing something about it, but many hours have passed since Prof. Barbara Engelking and I have not heard that the prosecutor’s office has done anything in this case. The chairman of the National Broadcasting Council, on the other hand, made the most correct move. Passivity is the worst attitude. We, as the Ministry of Education and Science, and in particular Minister Czarnek, have instructed the National Program for the Development of the Humanities to undertake research activities to draw up an exhaustive list of places of municipalities and Poles that during the Second World War, in order to resist the lies and innuendo used for the first time by another through the media to the Poles, Tomasz Rzymkowski, Deputy Minister of Education and Science, said in an interview with the wPolityce.pl portal, referring to Prof. Barbara Engelking on TVN24.
wPolityce.pl: Prof. dr. Barbara Engelking said in the program “Kropka nad i” (TVN24), among other things, that szmalcownik was common in Poland during World War II and that essentially the Jews who survived the destruction did so despite the Poles, who made it rather difficult for them to hide. Barbara Engelking also stated that few Poles saved Jews, and generally Poles failed Jews. How do you rate this media performance?
Tomasz Rzymkowski: I would start with Prof. Barbara Engelking is not a historian, but a sociologist and psychologist. It was her second appearance on the same program in which she spoke outrageously. Earlier she used very racist statements against the Polish nation, and now she is again distorting history and insulting the Polish nation. This is the radical dishonesty of a scientist who formulates far-reaching claims without any substantiation. He rejects perhaps the most important argument – namely that there was no other German-occupied country in Europe where rescuing Jews was punishable by death without any trial or verdict.
It must be admitted that editor Monika Olejnik presented this argument in the program. Answer by Prof. Engelking was that not only in Poland hiding Jews was punishable by death, and moreover there was a degree of punishment and not always the death penalty for hiding Jews.
In that case I am curious in which other country of occupied Europe the death penalty was imposed for Jews going into hiding.
This is what Prof. Engelking did not submit.
Well, that’s the problem. Perhaps it took place in the German-occupied territory of the USSR. On the other hand, in the Generalgouvernement, hiding Jews without trial was punishable by death, and the death of the Ulma family is an example of what it looked like.
Yes, but according to Prof. Engelking in Poland, attitudes like that of the Ulma family were rare, but blackmail was common.
This is the most disturbing thing about her statements. This is an outrageous generalization, because to say that szmalcownik was common in Poland means that in every family of a Pole reading this interview, there was a person who engaged in this kind of outrageous activity during World War II. This is just a lie, nonsense. Professor Engelking apparently likes to defame the Polish nation and now she has done it again.
Is there a possibility of a specific response to such statements or publications that defame the Polish nation, or should we accept that such statements/publications are notorious from time to time and we can only polemicize with them in the media/through scientific publications, but unfortunately abroad often only this message about Poland’s alleged complicity in the Holocaust breaks through?
That is why there is such a media appearance as Prof. Engelking, because there will be no report abroad from Poland on the agreement with Israel on mutual visits of young people from both countries, there will be no report on the celebration of the outbreak of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, but a report from Prof. Engelking, who will be presented as an excellent historian, even though she never studied history. I am counting on the reaction of the competent state authorities here, because insulting the Polish nation is a forbidden act.
Do you expect the prosecutor’s office to investigate this case?
I wish she would take up the subject, but I don’t expect her to.
For now, Maciej Świrski, the chairman of the National Broadcasting Council, has responded to these statements. It launched an investigation following complaints from citizens. At the same time, however, he emphasizes that in Poland, within the framework of freedom of expression, everyone is allowed to lie, which, as I understand it, can do little in general in this matter.
Chairman Świrski is at least doing something about it, but many hours have passed since Prof. Barbara Engelking and I have not heard that the prosecutor’s office has done anything in this case. The chairman of the National Broadcasting Council, on the other hand, made the most correct move. Passivity is the worst attitude. We, as the Ministry of Education and Science, and in particular Minister Czarnek, have instructed the National Program for the Development of the Humanities to undertake research activities to draw up an exhaustive list of places of municipalities and Poles that during the Second World War, in order to resist lies and innuendo that are first propounded to the Poles through the media.
Did the minister take these actions specifically after that statement?
Yes, he ordered that this kind of research should be conducted as part of this program. The match is decided in this case.
I saw that in the comments under Minister Czarnek’s entry on this subject there were voices that such matters should be dealt with by the Institute of National Remembrance, and not by the Ministry of State and National Education.
The Institute of National Remembrance has done a lot of in-depth analysis on this topic, these resources are easy to find on the Internet, libraries or bookstores with books from the Institute of National Remembrance, and they are very in-depth, insightful, showing, based on documents, testimonials of people, specific examples Poles save the lives of their Jewish neighbours, often paying the highest price, ie their lives and their families.
You are a lawyer by training, do you think the public prosecutor should respond to Prof. Engelking. How exactly, what exactly can be done legally in this case?
In this case you can respond both criminally and civilly. From a criminal point of view, I codified the offense of insulting the Polish nation in the Penal Code. The public prosecutor’s office should start proceedings ex officio in this case, because these were words spoken in public, through social media, and not somewhere quietly, in some catacombs in a group of five people. On the other hand, people and institutions who feel offended should, in my opinion, take civil action in this case for an apology and compensation from Prof. Engelking for embarrassing words to all Poles.
You probably mean organizations that defend the good name of Poland?
For example. A courageous lawyer could also prepare a class action lawsuit, a social campaign could be launched where one could sign that one has been wronged by the words of Prof. Engelking. I would like to sign such a document myself.
Adam Stankiewicz spoke
READ ALSO:
— Scandal on TVN24! Engelking: Poles failed Jews, szmalcownik was common. We falsify history in many ways
— The National Broadcasting Council has started proceedings about the words Engelking and Holland. “If the guest is lying, the journalist should tell the viewers it’s a lie”
Source: wPolityce