Israeli journalist Gideon Levy (Tel Aviv, 1953), a descendant of Holocaust survivors, is something of a legend to those who follow the eternal conflict in the Middle East. Hated by its citizensHe is viewed by others, especially those outside Israel, as part of the moral reserve of the country’s intelligentsia, who see him as too pro-Palestinian and who sometimes has to carry an escort with him. He has criticized the occupation of Gaza, the West Bank and East Jerusalem for decades. He constantly visited these regions to prepare information and opinion pieces for the Haaretz newspaper, which was unusual for Hebrew journalists.
A speech Levy gave in 2015 went viral on social media following the October 7 Hamas attacks that killed more than 1,200 people and the subsequent retaliation against Gaza that claimed the lives of more than 18,000 Palestinians. . In the book, he explains how Israeli society has become insensitive to the suffering of Palestinians. First, because “a Systematic dehumanization of Palestinians…scratch the skin of almost every Israeli and you will find this.” Then, because most of them are given the power to see themselves as the “chosen people.” Third, says Levy, because of “victimhood”: they are the only person who holds the power of history and at the same time sees himself as the victim .
We spoke with Gideon Levy via video conference from his home in Tel Aviv.
Do you know when a speech of yours went “viral”?
This morning they said yes to me.
In it, he described how Israeli society has isolated itself from the suffering of Palestinians. It was in 2015. Has your vision changed after the Hamas attacks on October 7?
In this sense, nothing has changed. Look at the coverage of this war on Israeli television and in the press. Nothing is taught about Gaza. You will be surprised. Only the sacrifices of Israeli soldiers, the successes of military operations, or the suffering of Israeli civilians in the south are shown. But you never see the suffering in Gaza. Nothing.
Because?
Because it is what we do in order to live in peace with ourselves. It’s always the same. The media cooperate not because of pressure from the Government, not because the press here is very free, but because of a commercial issue: no one wants to know, and so they only show what they believe will not disturb us. This changes the political position of the population.
The newspaper he works for, Haaretz, does not include the subject either. Loop Like seen in Spain. Here you can see the bombings, Palestinian children being injured or killed, etc. You can see the pictures.
And it appears more in Haaretz than in others, but I’m not sure it’s not as much as in Spain. There is another problem that should not be forgotten: No Israeli journalists have been allowed to enter Gaza for the last 16 years.
A recent poll by the Israel Democracy Institute shows that only 2% of Israelis think the military used too much firepower in Gaza. Do you think society fully supports the war? How do you perceive him/her among your friends, co-workers, or family?
I wrote in an article today (Israel’s first unanimous war): We have never before experienced a war without opposition, either in parliament or on the streets. Everyone supports the war. I feel that way everywhere, including my left-wing friends and family members who have always been pro-Palestinian. They think something happened on October 7th.
Do you in any way support the war or the way it is being conducted?
Not at all. How could I? This is an out of control war going nowhere. Goals will not be achieved. And above all it is completely disproportionate. What’s happening is terrible. Israel has no right to kill tens of thousands of people for any reason. We deported millions. Which state has the right to do such a thing?
Are you aware of the diplomatic conflict that followed the president’s statements? Pedro Sánchez At the Rafah gate in Egypt? This ended with the Spanish ambassador calling for consultations…
Yes I know him.
What is your opinion?
We all need to stop paying attention to words. If you want to put pressure on Israel, you must turn these words into action. Despite such statements, Israel has learned to live calmly. They say this is antisemitism and avoid blaming Israel for it. The only way to change Israel’s policies is through actions such as those taken by Europe against Russia after the invasion of Ukraine. However, for this to happen, the international community must first want to do something.
What kind of actions? Sanctions? Will you call ambassadors for consultation?
It’s not up to me to define these. But yes, the word “sanctions” is not illegitimate when it comes to a war that has become disproportionate. If you say this needs to stop, then you need to do something about it beyond condemnation.
Joe Biden said for the first time that bombings were indiscriminate…
And the day before, he vetoed the ceasefire decision in the Security Council. The day you don’t go, we’ll think you’re serious.
How would Israel react after October 7?
I couldn’t remain indifferent. He had the right to react. He has the right to end Hamas because this was a barbaric attack. No country could remain indifferent. But there are two problems. Are there limits? Yes there is. You cannot kill innocent people, including 8,000 children, for any reason. Second: Can you put an end to Hamas? No, Hamas can be hit but not defeated. Hamas appears to be on the rise in West Bank polls like never before.
Words are important in this context. How do you define what is happening in Gaza? There are people talking about the fight against terrorism Hamas; others are about massacres of Palestinians; others more ethnic cleansing; others are genocide…
This is a huge massacre. It’s also starting to look like a massacre. To talk about genocide, you need evidence of intent to kill all Palestinians. I don’t think the government wants this. Some are in Israel, yes. Or fire them. I’m talking about massacres and blood baths. When we see the end result, we can understand that this was truly a genocide and no one did anything to stop it. A government minister called this the second Nakba (the expulsion of Palestinians in 1948).
What do you think the final scenario of the war will be? Army control in Gaza? Deportation of Palestinians to Egypt?
It’s worse than all this. They don’t have a final scenario [endgame]. They really want the people of Gaza to go to Egypt, but Egypt does not allow it. This is not an option. Killing them all is not an option either. I think they will leave northern Gaza completely destroyed and under Israeli control. I think Israel will stay in Gaza for a long time. The South will have to absorb two million people. This is an inhumane solution because there is no room. Everything largely depends on the USA.
There are many videos on social networks in which Israelis mock the suffering of Palestinians, and their own newspaper discovered a Telegram account allegedly controlled by the Army showing crude videos of Palestinian deaths. What is happening in Israeli society?
These are years of brainwashing, decades of demonization of Palestinians. This is the result. In any case, they are a small minority of Israelis. The problem is that many government ministers support him. And it gets worse because the war legitimized them. Many people believe that what happened on October 7 was done by all Palestinians and want to kill them. This is very worrying.
do you have friends Loop Who did I talk to?
Yes, but since the first day of the war I have not dared to look for them because I am too afraid that they are not alive and I am ashamed of what happened. I have been going to the West Bank every week for 35 years, just as I did to Gaza before Hamas came to power and Israel blocked me.
How do you see the West Bank?
A poll was released today saying support for Hamas in the West Bank has risen to 70 percent. This made him the best researcher in Palestine. The interesting thing is that Hamas is falling in Gaza because they are paying the price for their policies there. The Palestinian National Authority, and specifically President Mahmoud Abbas, also appears to have only 7 percent support. Therefore, the idea of the Palestinian National Authority taking control of Gaza makes no sense.
Is there any window for hope?
But only if the international community decides to take the problem seriously. There are some symptoms. But the US has elections next year and won’t care much about that. And then Donald Trump might come back and it’ll be a whole new game…
Will the situation get worse with Trump?
Everything is worse with Trump. Nothing good can come of it. I don’t know how it will happen because it is unpredictable. But we’d better forget about that if we pin our hopes on Trump. It’s not very serious. Yeah, he made the Abraham Accords [restablecimiento de relaciones entre Israel y Emiratos Árabes Unidos, Baréin, Sudán y Marruecos] They were nice, but the problem is that Tel Aviv didn’t have to pay any price for this peace. But since there are 700,000 settlers in the West Bank, I don’t see a solution to the problem. Who will throw them out? Nobody. And without this evacuation, the establishment of the State of Palestine is not possible. No matter how hard I try, I don’t see any hope right now. Moreover, there is no partner for peace in either Israel or Palestine. Who will take bold measures? Benjamin Netanyahu, Benny Gantz [actual ministro sin cartera de Israel]?
His family is of German origin. Germany openly supports Israel. What could be his role in all this?
Annoyed. I understand your particular position. However, it also has a special position towards the Palestinians because the State of Israel would not have been established without the Holocaust. Therefore, they also have an indirect responsibility towards the Palestinians. Germany cannot lead anything, but it can join others. There are others who can lead this: the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Italy, Spain…