In the nineties, Oslo process I’m still going and there’s hope peaceful solution to conflict between Israelis and Palestinians still alive Abraham Burg (Jerusalem, 68 years old) He took on some of Turkey’s most important duties Israel And Jewish world. was the president Parliament, Jewish Agency And World Zionist Organization. Today he is a scourge of the extremism that prevails in his country. A position he expresses through his books and lectures at universities on three continents. In this interview with El Periódico de Catalunya of the Prensa Ibérica group, tragedy Loop and Israel and He can see some light in all this darkness.
Did Israelis wake up from their dreams with the massacre carried out by Hamas on October 7?
Yes, but I don’t know what truth we are waking up to. The State of Israel was founded with the aim of preventing collective harm against Jews at all costs, whether it be a pogrom or another Holocaust. And suddenly we woke up to one of the worst periods in Jewish history. Fundamentally, the idea that a strong state could protect us from all kinds of evil has collapsed. What we don’t understand is that there are reasons behind this and that Gaza will not disappear. Or the Palestine issue, whose evaporation we have been celebrating for 10 years, is being discussed again. None of this is yet clear to Israelis.
Why were all previous warnings about the attack ignored?
We will have to wait for a commission of inquiry to be established to clarify who said what to whom and why they were not listened to. The other part of the answer, as with all surprises in history, is that the State and society are caught up in their own understanding of reality, which prevents them from considering other alternatives. Unfortunately, your enemy is not blind to the same reality and eventually surprises you.
The vast majority of Israelis did not associate October 7 with the atrocities that occupied Palestinians face every day. It’s like this is a normal country suddenly attacked by a gang of terrorists.
It’s worse than that. For almost a generation, Israelis have been brainwashed. They were told that they could manage the crisis rather than solve it, that they could live a wonderful life without having to pay for the crimes their country committed so that they could live comfortably. These Israelis do not know where Gaza and the West Bank are today. They have never known a Palestinian or the reality they live in. Netanyahu, with the help of idiot Donald Trump, has brainwashed us into thinking this problem no longer exists.
The Israeli government says it wants to destroy Hamas and release the hostages, but it is devastating Gaza and destroying its people. What are you looking for with this policy?
Very easy. War has no plans or goals, and therefore we will never achieve them. We are completely in the revenge phase and have no plan to end this. When this is all over, there will be great disappointment in Israel.
Introduce yourself.
Let’s imagine that the Palestinian Authority returns to Gaza, directly or indirectly. It will be a disappointment for those who say the Prime Minister will never allow this. The same thing will happen if Hamas retains control of Gaza or Israel reoccupies the Strip. [sigue ocupada extraterritorialmente]. Any outcome would be disappointing given Netanyahu’s reluctance to implement a serious plan for the coming years.
Much of the world is horrified by the beating of more than 8,000 children in Gaza. How come there is no reaction in Israeli society?
First of all, I will tell you about my personal position. Hamas’ crimes are abhorrent. No context, no explanation, no reason. These are crimes against humanity. barbarians But none of these crimes justify the mass murder of so many innocent people in Gaza. One evil does not justify another. I’m not comparing them, but I also don’t accept that one is the cause of the other. Very few Israelis are willing to accept this responsibility because for the majority, all Palestinians are terrorists, just as for the majority of Palestinians, all Israelis are soldiers and settlers. Israelis do not know that we want peace because we are pursuing a policy of separation. For us, there are no people in Gaza, only suicides and terrorists. This is the tragedy of the situation.
The Netanyahu Government is considering deportation to Egypt, but it will not be easy. How will the surviving Gazans survive in a devastated place? Isn’t it a disaster that Israel has a very poor and radical neighbor?
Major reconstruction will be required, but international money will not come unless Israel agrees to a comprehensive agreement that envisions a Palestinian state. Otherwise, Gaza’s poverty, misery and disease will be entirely Israel’s responsibility, and it will pay the price for it. This is the dilemma.
You led some of the most important institutions in Israel and the Jewish world, but over the years you became very critical. What happened along the way?
I entered politics after the start of the first Lebanon war (1982-2000) and focused on two issues: ending the occupation and ensuring church-state separation. 40 years have passed and I still want the same thing; Peace, justice, equality for all. I have not changed, it is Israel that has changed. More radical, more religious, more fundamentalist, more nationalist and many more…
Is there a key moment that would explain this drift?
It’s a long story, but local dynamics have a lot to do with what happened in 1967 when we occupied the Palestinian Territories, the heartland of biblical Israel for messianic Jews. We are also part of the zeitgeist of the times, when many classical nation-states were divided into ethnic states, such as Hungary for the Hungarians, white supremacist America, Alternative Germany for Germany or the Jewish state. in Israel. Same dynamic.
What was your reaction when Israel’s UN Ambassador Gilad Erdan appeared with the yellow Star of David on his lapel?
I thought he was an idiot. Do you really want the world to believe that this terrible massacre took place 80 years after the Holocaust, at a time when Israel had 200 nuclear bombs, which it continues to deny, the strongest military in the region, as well as incredible status and influence in the world? Can it be compared to the Holocaust? Are you Mad? In some ways it was an expression of Holocaust denialism.
What do you think will happen in Israel when the war is over?
It depends on whether it will be finished in two months or two years. The countdown will begin with Benny Gantz’s departure from the unity government. This will be the sign that the war is over. First, a commission of inquiry will be established to clarify everything that brought us to this point, and then new elections will be held. Don’t ask me who will win because I’m not a fortune teller.
You criticize Netanyahu a lot, but both occupation, settlements and suppression of Palestinians’ rights are state policies that have been maintained for decades. Is it possible to reverse these?
The entire Zionist structure, both the Labor Party and Likud, is responsible for this terrible settlement project. They started with Rabin and Peres, they never stopped, they didn’t regret it. Netanyahu’s crime was that he chose to make a deal with the evil Hamas, even though he had 15 years to reach some kind of agreement with Palestinians who, like President Mahmoud Abbas, wanted to live peacefully alongside Israel. And not to weaken the Palestinian Authority (PA), prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, evacuate settlements, or lose its voter base. Netanyahu is the main culprit responsible for encouraging, financing, supporting and prioritizing Hamas over the ANP.
Do you see any possibility of seeing a peace agreement with the Palestinians in your lifetime?
Let me ask you a question: Before October 7, did you think Hamas could defeat the Israeli Army?
NO
Here’s your answer. There will be peace and we will both see it.