“The depopulation of rural areas is something that affects all of Europe“That’s why we need to talk a lot, exchange ideas, take initiatives to try to improve the quality of life in the towns.” French Minister of Territorial Assets and Rural Environment Dominique Faure (Carcassone, 1959) visited Madrid to obtain detailed information about the policies implemented in our country to improve the conditions of rural areas.
Taking a break from his busy schedule, he made a visit to the Spanish Federation of Municipalities and Provinces (FEMP) and a meeting with mayors, where he shared his experiences with many mayors, including the mayor of Fuenlabrada, Javier Ayala. minister For Ecological Transition and Demographic Challenge, Teresa Ribera reports to EL PERIÓDICO DE ESPAÑA from the Prensa Ibérica group.
Q.- In an interview before you started your visit, you were very interested in Spain’s decentralized system, is this the purpose of your visit?
A.- The first aim is not to talk about decentralization, but to understand the fluidity of the functioning of the municipality, province and autonomy at the regional level and to know how they interact with each other. What I see is very interesting in terms of social cohesion. We talked to the president of FEMP and the five mayors about how they work with the autonomous community and how they work with the State on important issues such as urban development, housing, police… This is an opportunity to be inspired by its functioning, which is more decentralized than ours. President Macron asked us to work on decentralizing housing management. In Spain, powers are transferred to autonomous communities. As if we transferred it to the regions […] Here, too much responsibility is given to regional governments. We are more Jacobean in this regard. I am very curious about this issue and I am waiting for our President to tell me which direction we are heading.
Q.- When it comes to housing, there is a paradox in rural areas of Spain. There are almost deserted towns but no houses rented or sold. Is the same situation true in France?
A.- We have exactly the same problem; We have many empty houses in our towns. I have worked hard with the prime minister on this issue since June last year, and on June 15 I announced a plan to enable mayors to access these assets more quickly. [casas vacías] for example, being able to renovate them and sell or rent them to young people. We allocated a budget to the Governorship to solve this. [es la ciudad capital de un departamento] engineering and all towns in France can apply to benefit from it. It is difficult to buy an empty house, renovate it and resell or rent it. […] In France, many towns with a population of 1,000 can have up to 250 empty houses. I thought that with the coronavirus, we would host a large number of young people in rural areas, but this flow was not there, but towards medium-sized cities. They left Paris, Lyon and Bordeaux and went to medium-sized cities with a population of 20,000-40,000, and those cities developed a lot. This is something that makes us happy, because it balances things out a bit, but we also need to give resources to the mayors of small municipalities. We ask the governor to distribute these immigrants to the region because this is a repopulation vector. There is a desire among young people to live in rural areas, but these are thermally inhibited, old houses and therefore they preferred to stay in medium-sized cities where there are more services. I still believe we will achieve this. I talked a lot with citizens, elected officials, associations. […]
Question-Is this the project for which they increased the budget from 40 million euros to 100 million euros?
A.- This is the allocation of the biodiversity programme; It does not apply to all rural areas. It is aimed at those who have lots of forests, lands and rivers. We will ask mayors to maintain them and give them money to develop carbon-capturing forests. In parallel, we will invest 4.5 billion euros in the regions. A green backdrop for cities and towns that are actors and heroes. To benefit from these measures, they must be energy sustainable.
S.- A reforestation project for burned forests in Las Hurdes worked very well, population was built as unemployment disappeared.
A.- That’s the key. You must create employment in the town and at the same time restore the forest and population. These rural areas, rivers, fields, people have to experience them as if they were their own. Knowing that gaining quality of life is a valuable asset. We must encourage mayors to develop forests, they are vectors of attraction.
Question.- Do you have any advice for Spain on combating population decline?
A.- I came to Spain not to tell you what we do well, but to listen, understand and learn good Spanish practices. If you want to know what we want to do for rural areas in France, of course I will tell you. For example, the Plan for rural areas has many axes, but I want to go further. I want to understand how the non-touristy towns of the region, in the mountains, on the retrocoast, developed and how they were managed. I know it is not a miracle recipe, but it will be a dialogue in which I will listen and participate. We agree that the first link in creating the population in the rural world is employment. What we’re doing in France is reusing old industrial land and injecting money into them to bring in new industries and trying to revitalize these rural areas. Rural depopulation is an issue that affects all of Europe and we need to talk a lot; What are you doing, what is the other one doing? This will help things go better in people’s quality of life.
Q.- How was your meeting at FEMP?
A.- I greatly appreciated the exchanges with the mayors. I was mayor and rarely does a minister come to speak at the local level. It was a very warm shopping experience, I saw things that dazzled my eyes, such as the Fuenlabrada Co-Living Table. It is an association that unites many associations and creates a great sense of belonging to the municipality. Fuenlabrada was a suburb of Madrid with a population of 7,000 45 years ago and now has a population of 180,000. He knows how to integrate and absorb a large population with a method of integration that works. And we don’t have that in France. A group that brings together social, cultural and sports associations in a cross-sectional manner, allowing brotherhood and respect for those who are different to be instilled. It was quite interesting.
Question.- Life expectancy has decreased in rural areas of France. What do you think is the reason for this?
A.- It’s sad, I read this report too. People in rural areas tell me that the death rate is higher because the doctor is closer and the medical professional or hospital is further away. It is true that, like Spain, we are a Western country and we want all French people to have access to hospitals. But I’m not sure that’s the reason, and I don’t have the data to know why that is.
Question-You have an idea to revitalize rural areas with small battery-powered trams, what does it consist of?
A.- We want to use existing railway lines for high-speed trains to pass. It is an aspiration to ask the regions and the French train network to provide their own tracks and trains to people living far from the cities. This is an invitation to work on a meaningful project between the State and the railway operator, rather than building new tracks.
Question- Recently French winegrowers dumped bulk wine across the border that Spanish producers took to France, what is your opinion?
A.- It is true that our winegrowers in various regions in the south of France, including the Western Pyrenees, experienced a disastrous harvest, first due to mold and then to drought. We had to ban irrigation and the harvest was very bad. Farmers are expecting money from the French State to compensate for the loss of harvest. First of all, I feel very supportive of these winegrowers who are suffering because they are not being compensated properly for their work. But we are working with our Minister of Agriculture to provide loans and support with subsidies. Winegrowers now want to make a commitment with the State and they know they will be listened to. But responsibility was lost through acts of violence. And overturning trucks and committing violence on the highway is not being responsible. France and Europe also accompany these winegrowers, and these are not behaviors I advocate. These actions will not speed anything up. Everything is solved through dialogue.
Q.- Will there be an agreement to transport green hydrogen from Spain via the H2Med hydrochannel?
A.- I don’t understand the green hydrogen thing in Spain. To get green hydrogen, you need electrolysis to remove the hydrogen molecules. You need energy to hydrolyze water. What we call green hydrogen is when you hydrolyze water to extract green hydrogen with renewable energy. In France we say we produce a lot of hydrogen, but ours is yellow. It is produced by nuclear, decarbonized electricity. We think this decarbonized energy is very virtuous. The difference between Spanish green hydrogen, which I don’t know why it is green, and the lack of methanizers to produce renewable energy in Spain… There is wind, there is solar, but a very high level of energy is needed to hydrolyze it. There’s water and then there’s hydrogen. I believe that we can work together with our nuclear and you with your green hydrogen, and we will realize this transfer. If you produce large quantities of green hydrogen, we will transport it to Marseille. There is room for everyone. For both us and you.
Q.- Will the Spain-France high-speed train connection be possible in the coming years?
A.- I’m speaking from memory, but I think we’ll see the high-speed train from Montpelier to Perpignan on the Spanish border in 2040. That’s all I know.