There are approximately 270,000 Peruvians registered in Spain. This number has increased significantly in recent years, when the country has experienced a persistent political crisis: five presidents in just four years. The last one, Pedro Castillo, is still in prison after trying what his opponents described as a “self-inflicted coup” last december.
Salafist centrist Francisco Sagasti (Lima, 1944) This newspaper, which governed the country between 2020-2021, follows at the headquarters of the Club of Madrid, an organization that brings together more than 100 former heads of State and Government. We talked to him about the political situation of the Latin American country.
They say you look like Don Quixote, I see it’s true…
Yes, but he’s a practical Don Quixote. I’m not stuck with chivalry stories. You must have ideas, imagination and look to the future, but keep your feet on the ground. Make sure that the ideas we have to improve our lives can be implemented in the short term. Quijota is not enough.
Is Peru in the process of political collapse?
In general, not only in Peru, there is a process in which political parties are losing their role of mediating between citizens and exercising the authority they traditionally had. We are in the process of eliminating political intermediaries, and parties in general do not play the role they did in the past.
Pedro Castillo remains in prison, nine months after his dismissal. How do you evaluate what happened? [su detención tras disolver el Congreso de Perú y decretar un Gobierno de excepción]?
It is clear that his use of power and political authority does not comply with any institutional democratic rules and integrity.
From your perspective, was this a self-coup?
Definitely.
His replacement, Dina Boluarte, faces investigation by the Prosecutor’s Office on the grounds that she suppressed the protests of Castillo’s supporters…
They’re not the only ones supporting Castillo. These were much broader protests: Some touched on the former president’s situation, others expressed dissatisfaction on some pretty complex issues. And here it is clear that the pressure is excessive.
Do you think there will be an election?
I don’t know. This is one of the proposals that I put forward more than a year and a half ago. Although some think this will further increase instability, it seems like a solution to me. In my opinion, this is not the case. I believe that we already have a level of stability that is great enough for a new Congress and a new presidency and a new general election to be a reasonable solution.
How important is the struggle between the USA and China regarding what is happening in Peru? It will be China’s first port Latin AmericaChancay for example…
I think there is a lot more noise than there actually is. This is an important factor, but Peru is only one of several places in the world affected by the economic, political and, to a much lesser extent, military struggle between China and the United States. But I do not see this as a problem for Peru as long as we have governments that know how to use our country’s position in this new geopolitical scenario. Nothing should be accepted by any power that would narrow down the national political decision-making space.
What is Peru’s main problem: poverty, corruption or political instability?
They are interconnected, there is no way to separate them. The problem of poverty cannot be solved without simultaneously addressing the issue of citizens’ security or inequality. Government revenue in Peru is too low to cover the minimum provision of social and security services. Insecurity is taking a heavy toll right now.
Citizen’s distrust…
Last year, 400,000 people left Peru permanently. Who are the rest? Normally young people are separated from the most talented, best prepared ones. This situation creates a serious problem for both the public sector, the private sector and civil society. We are losing the people who can contribute the most in the future.
Is this migration at its maximum?
We have not seen anything like this since the second half of the 80s, the period of terrorism and hyperinflation. It’s starting to become comparable. I hope it doesn’t continue like this.
There are just over a quarter of a million Peruvians registered in Spain. What hope would you give them? Peru?
Seeing what Spain is like, I think his return will bring a lot to Peru because of his own experience and his work in the country. And I hope they enter active political life. One of the problems we face is that politics is in the hands of people who are unscrupulous, have no public interest, have purely personal, and in some cases even petty, interests, turning politics into grey.
European Union Recently, he has been repeating that this time his priority is Latin America. They call it the most “European compatible” region.
It is the natural partner of Europe and also of the United States. Culturally, geopolitically, in terms of resources, in terms of compatibility, in terms of culture… It is also the most equipped region in the world in terms of physical resources. I have often said that South America in general, and Peru in particular, has a “diversity of diversity.” Compare South America to Africa, the Middle East or South Asia. We have biological and ecosystem diversity, energy resources, water resources, soils, minerals, fishing diversity, cultural diversity…
It seems that the last EU summit with Latin America focused on guaranteeing the supply of raw materials…
That’s not all. From Río Grande to Patagonia, we speak one language: “Portuñol”. And we still have a “demographic margin” of about 15 or 20 years where the working-age population outnumbers the dependent population. Therefore, it would be strategic now to look at Latin America from the perspective of reaching all kinds of agreements, cultural, scientific, investment, commercial and social. This is a golden opportunity for Europe. Scientific and technological cooperation programs should be established between Europe and South America and between the United States, Canada and South America. China will not do this.