Indian writer Amitav Ghosh is one of the most determined voices in world literature on climate change. His latest book is ‘The Curse of Nutmeg’. ‘Parables for a Planet in Crisis’ tells the story of how this species became a curse for the island where it grew up and was then perpetuated with all resources. According to the author, the origins of the current climate emergency lie in the historical use of resources and the vision of the Earth as a repository of goods for human use and enjoyment.
-We were talking about this climate change relatively very recently, as if this were a contemporary problem. But you attribute its origin to centuries ago, to European colonialism.
-This is one of the problems we encounter when we think of climate change as if it were something current or new. We don’t think of it as something that comes from the past and will affect the future. However, when we look at the genealogy of the disasters around us, we see that there are very specific issues that connect us to history. Therefore, I think it is very important not to ignore the consequences of history today.
-He lists his origins in his book. climate crisis in the nutmeg trade. Because?
– The story of the book begins with the nutmeg because I used it as a metaphor for its own history, which is very interesting and explains very well the inferentiality of sources and the impact it can have. It happened on the island of Banda. This incredible tree was not only economically but also culturally important to its inhabitants. But that tree became a curse for them because it led to the extinction of the original populations. We can see how this is repeated over and over again all over the planet with regard to countless resources. cotton or sugar cane, which drove millions of Africans into slavery in the Americas and the Caribbean. We also saw this in the enslavement of indigenous peoples in South America. The same thing happened in many places. We observe in the world today that climate change is also a result of resource extraction at the global level.
–So do you locate the root of the climate crisis in the struggle for resources?
-I can say this in the use of resources. For example, fossil fuel. Extracting fossil fuel is one thing, but there is also its use, how do we use it, what do we get? Throw away the waste, fill it with real garbage, throw it into the stratosphere, emissions. That’s when we damage the atmosphere and the planet with the use of fossil fuels.
-So if everything comes from so far away, is it time for the salvation of the planet?
-I am not a prophet, I have no prophecy, I cannot see the future. I can’t say what will happen. But one of the saddest things about the climate crisis is that when potential progress is seen, it is swallowed up by other events. For example, right now the climate crisis is being canceled out by war conflicts. And that’s what we’re talking about right now: gunfights. That’s why talking about the climate crisis is very complicated, sometimes even too complex. And we should not forget that wars are actually one of the most polluting activities in the world. There are many planes bombing the areas. This releases a lot of gas… All I can say is that the future doesn’t look like a very promising scenario.
-So if there was salvation for the world, where would this salvation be? In your book you talk about a new way of looking at the world.
– I think there are challenges around us and we need to put in place some ways to reduce fossil fuel consumption. This is not impossible, but you have to make an effort. I don’t know if we will make this effort, but we have seen public efforts in other situations, in other contexts. Maybe we can get back to the path of stopping consuming the way we were consuming.
-Rich countries argue that poor and developing countries are the countries that pollute the environment the most. China and India also stand out.
–In terms of gas emissions, I think the climate impact we see today is a result of emissions made 100 years ago. When talking about this problem, we should not forget history because history leads us to today. We must not forget historical emissions. It is true that China and India produce large amounts of emissions today, but their historical emissions are very small. And even if we talk about emissions per capita, they are very small, very small. Their emissions are fractions of the emissions of the Europeans and the emissions of the United States. These countries do not consume the same amount of energy in a year as, for example, the USA or Europe. Therefore, there is a huge disparity between energy consumption and energy distribution, and it is absurd and somewhat hypocritical for Europeans or Westerners to now say that Indians or Chinese emit too much gas, because every individual pollutes, and whatever a person pollutes, he pollutes. India, for example, pollutes less than an individual here in Europe.
-Do you believe that under the umbrella of climate change, developing countries are being denied the possibility of growth that rich countries have?
-You can’t really deny the growth of developing or developing countries. Until 1945, when the process of decolonization began, the same process was based on the denial of certain issues, for example, industrialization in the global south, but it is currently not possible to stop the industrialization of the global south. It is impossible to tell China or India not to industrialise, not to bet on their growth, because they will not listen. They are essentially self-industrializing and are looking for ways to reduce their carbon footprint by trying to reduce the impact of their population’s individual consumption. And that’s the only way to do this in a truly environmentally conscious way. But is there really a Western leader or politician who has the guts, the guts to tell his country, his citizens, that we need to stop consumption and start a new way of life? No, they don’t. .
-Are we not taking the climate emergency seriously enough?
-As are. For example, we are talking about a country like Italy, where climate events and different disasters occur every day, and this problem of the climate crisis, which is talked about and made visible in the Italian press, is not far from this. This is not mentioned in the Spanish state either, and its consequences are seen in agriculture and desertification, for example in the lack of rain. So we see the consequences, but there is no action by citizens and politicians to stop it.
-And as climate denialism grows…
-They close their eyes to the reality that surrounds them. We can all see what’s going on, we don’t even need science to prove it to you. We see it. In the global south, everyone knows this, everyone is aware of it. I have almost never encountered a climate denier, either on the African continent or in South America. Denialism is the pathology of rich countries. It is established and supported by energy companies. They were promoting a model similar to the tobacco industry at that time. They deny everything and most of the money generated by this industry goes directly into the hands of the far right and therefore their political proposals.
-Do you think there is any benefit to COPs, which are annual conferences on climate change?
-I think there are goals, yes, but as Greta Thungerg said, if the agreements are not implemented later, everything is blah. etc. I think these meetings, like the COP, are also an opportunity for activists around the world to come together in counter-summits. But activists are left out of the discussion.