Carol Chouchani frees up work crew Climate Change and Sustainability of Natural Resources between UN in the Arab region. He came to Barcelona to join the cycle. MedDialogues +2030 discussions Conference on sustainable development organized by IEMed, Club of Rome and La Caixa Foundation.
Despite all the evidence we have, there are still those who insist on denying the existence of climate change. What was I going to tell them?
Are you going to deny climate change just because of what happened this year? How many extreme events have occurred? Something is not normal. I think even the staunchest deniers are aware that the extreme flooding in Derna, Libya is not normal. Forest fires hitting Greece, recurring drought in Spain followed by flash floods. Something is not normal. Something is changing. I don’t think anyone can say right now that things haven’t changed.
To what do you attribute the blindness of the deniers?
Now there are people who do not want to make commitments that will affect the future. So admitting that we need to act against climate change means we need to act now. This will mean changing our behaviour, transforming our economies and recognizing the inequalities that exist in the impacts of climate change between rich and poor countries, and between rich and poor societies within countries. And once again, we are aware that we must transform from an economy focused on specific industries to one that can be more sustainable, with more sustainable production and consumption models that enable a transformative economy based on new technologies, new innovation and ecological approaches. Any change scares people.
Do you think that everything in the fight against climate change is about investments and money?
Yes, we are talking about investment, but we invest not only in large companies but also in people.
Is it difficult to change your thinking?
Adapting equipment is as difficult as adapting a car to make it more modern and renewable. It’s about having to shed the entire educational background of someone who is programmed to become a petroleum engineer or a coal miner or be involved in a more polluting industry like cement or heavy phosphate. They are important sectors. It involves changing the way your workforce thinks through training. Not only business owners, but also their employees can sometimes be reluctant to move forward. There is a lot of talk about transitioning to a greener economy. There are many new employment opportunities. There are many new investment opportunities. But you need to tie that together and find someone to help pay for that transition and that transition.
Is the Libya disaster an example of things to come?
I hope I never see him again. Very dramatic. It’s really dramatic. The seas as well as the land are warming, and we are seeing how the variability of the hydrological cycle is changing. Yes, they are used to rain in the region of Libya where the disaster occurred, but not this much. Infrastructures and dams collapsed one by one. As a country mired in a long political crisis, the country’s government has been unable to increase necessary infrastructure investment. And this is not the only case.
Flash floods are also experienced in other parts of the Mediterranean.
Italy, Greece, even Spain. The losses and damages caused by these flash floods can be prevented by just thinking about it. Cleaning drains is enough when building or maintaining infrastructure. So there are no impossible solutions. It is necessary to think. That’s why we are working hard on climate integration, not only in the country, not only in homes, but in all sectors such as transportation, agriculture, water.
It is indisputable that water will become scarce. Do you think we should be prepared for conflicts, even wars, over control of water?
I don’t know if the war will be in terms of physical military attack, but there will be political conflicts over control of water. There are already indicators. But there are increasingly applied tools that have the potential to mitigate the risk of conflict and promote cooperation.
If there are problems in water control, will we see this only in poor countries or in the most developed countries?
This is a universal problem.
Another serious problem is the heating of the water.
When there are more emissions in the atmosphere, land gets warmer, but so does water. And when water, the oceans that cover most of the planet, warms, evaporation accelerates, the hydrological cycle accelerates, and more extreme events occur.
Where is the solution from your perspective?
There must be an interdisciplinary, collaborative and integrated response that includes technology, education of new generations and governance. And of course financing. Ensure that money, investments and budgets are allocated not only to mitigating climate impacts but also to adapting to climate impacts.
Could the effects of climate change get worse?
Of course they could be worse. There needs to be action. The question is how much the current generation is willing to invest so that our children and their mid-century children can’t just live in air-conditioned buildings and farm the land. Maybe the solution for us will be to produce food only from greenhouses. Maybe it will have to be like this in the future. I personally do not believe that human civilization will disappear, but we will not have the quality and beauty of life that we have now. And we must work together because if we don’t transform now, we will have to transform. It will change our way of life.
What can we do individually?
Everyone can change the way they travel, choosing between plastic and paper, among other considerations. In Europe and Spain we do not use plastics very much. Without forgetting to raise awareness, small actions make a difference in the fight against climate change. Demand that politicians take action and put climate change on their agenda.