Baby face shouldn’t confuse anyone. Before Mayor of Warsaw, Rafal Trzaskowski He was a member of the European Parliament, a minister and a deputy in his country, and a candidate for the Polish presidency in 2020, missing the position by just two points in the runoff. Currently number two of the opposition party civic platform, managed by Donald Tusk, Trzaskowski (Warsaw, 1972) Poland European, liberal and democrat. Took it this Tuesday in Barcelona European Construction Award giving Economy Circle For his work in hosting Ukrainian refugees in Warsaw and his advocacy for the rule of law.
Following the start of the Ukrainian invasion, Warsaw faced a major challenge. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian refugees flocked to the city. How do you evaluate?
More than 1.5 million Ukrainians passed through Warsaw. We accepted 300,000 refugees in the first three weeks of the conflict alone. To give an idea, around 200,000 people came to Europe during the Mediterranean crisis in 2015. All over the continent, while we’re getting 300,000 in just three weeks. It was overwhelming, but civil society responded in an incredible way. They opened their arms and took them into their homes, but it was only ordinary people who helped. I was in Kiev eight days before the war. The mayor, Vitali Klitschko, told me there would be war. No one could have predicted it would be on a grand scale, but we started preparing to know what to do when it hits.
I was in Warsaw last summer. Many predicted the problems over time and said some political forces would exploit the refugees. Have bad omens come true?
We feared the fatigue syndrome. The war caused food and energy prices to rise, but support for our Ukrainian friends continued. This does not mean that there are many difficulties and some shortcomings in housing or education. It has been a tremendous effort: we have given Ukrainians citizenship, free access to education and health care, or benefits.
But the Polish government’s lack of a strategy was widely criticized.
The government does not have a long-term strategy. An example: we have about 70,000 Ukrainian children, about 20,000 of whom are enrolled in our schools. Another 50,000 people also take classes online, but we have no way of verifying this. When the war started, we went to the Minister of Education, who hated us for being a demagogue. We said we couldn’t accommodate tens of thousands of children in our schools, we needed support, resources and a strategy. He told us that this is not his responsibility and that we should take as much as we can.
Do they have resources left to help refugees?
Whatever happens, we will continue to help. We cooperate with the populist government, but they have started to change taxation for political reasons to reduce the funds cities receive. We have lost about 2 billion Euros in the last three years. This has complicated our lives and forced us to seek help from the US, EU and UN agencies such as UNICEF.
The Polish government did not want to accept a single Syrian and was very harsh with immigrants trying to cross through Belarus. On the other hand, he was very generous towards the Ukrainians. Was skin color a factor for Mateusz Morawiecki’s government?
You are absolutely right. I was Minister for European Integration in the previous government when we negotiated with refugees from the Mediterranean. I told our European friends that the idea of quotas is crazy. It didn’t work for the commission to decide with mathematical formulas. We said we would accept 7 thousand to show solidarity, but the next government overturned the decision. As for our policy on the Belarusian border, it’s a complicated issue because Putin and Lukashenko wanted to destabilize Poland, so they started to put immigrants on planes and send them to our borders. This forced us to take drastic measures. The exiles were not humane and that is a problem. Everything was different with Ukraine. All political forces agree that we should help and open the borders because everyone in Poland believes that Ukrainians are fighting for our freedom. For Poland’s freedom, Europe’s freedom and transatlantic stability.
But would you say the government’s double standards respond to xenophobic or racist attitudes?
There is no doubt that he promoted xenophobia in Poland. During the crisis in the Mediterranean, Kazinski said, migrants even brought diseases. Right-wing politicians claimed that they would rape our women. They managed to create fear abroad. They also used it against us, all of us who want to open borders to people outside of our culture.
From the beginning, the Poles acted as if Putin had attacked Poland. It has been 15 months since the occupation. Has your perception of the Russian threat changed?
We now feel more secure thanks to the unity and US guarantees we have shown. But Putin is unpredictable and the Russian threat is still there, so it should not be taken lightly. I’m also sure that Putin miscalculated. He did not think that the Ukrainians would act with such courage and unity or be well prepared for war. He believed that Ukraine would disintegrate. It is very important that Europe can break some taboos in these months. Who would have thought that military aid to Ukraine would be financed from the European budget? Or that tanks and warplanes will be delivered. Europe and NATO took it seriously, and that’s very important because all the crazy dictators in the world are well aware of how we act.
Did Russia’s performance in this war surprise you?
Who is not surprised. Putin was deceived by his people, his entourage made him think that all military investments serve to create a modern and competent army. However, when you start an offensive war that your people don’t believe in, live in a kleptocratic society where some equipment is stolen or not maintained, use outdated military tactics and have no strategy, you will eventually fail. Putin only wanted to use half a measure. He did not mobilize the entire population, but Moscow or St. He devoted himself to sending people from the provinces to the front, so as not to offend the elite in St. Petersburg.
How can this war end?
This is very difficult to know. I hope Ukraine wins and I believe we should not dictate the conditions or time to the Ukrainians. Everything Western politicians say can be misinterpreted. It’s the Ukrainians that you have to decide. We Europeans and North Americans must confine ourselves to ensuring their safety.
Poland’s authoritarian return has worried the EU for years. Is Poland still a democracy?
As in many other places, it is a democracy surrounded by populist forces. Look at Trump, Orban in Hungary, Orban in France, or Vox in Spain. Our societies are highly polarized and populism continues to rise. It’s not just a Polish phenomenon, but it’s true [Jaroslaw] kaczynski [líder del gobernante Partido de la Ley y la Justicia] It wants to destroy the independence of the judiciary and many of our institutions. They opened a parliamentary inquiry into Russian influence in Poland just a week ago, and now they want to prosecute Donald Tusk. [expresidente del Consejo Europeo y líder del principal partido de la oposición] in a Bolshevik court that could sentence him to 10 years in prison and remove him from public life.
A special court in the parliament?
Definitely an unconstitutional farce, they want to prevent him from running in the next election. They not only politicized the institutions, but also turned the television into a crazy propaganda machine and used all the power of the state against the opposition. We have never experienced anything like this before in any democracy.
Hungary has a similar government, but unlike his Polish counterparts, Víktor Orban is a close ally of Putin.
Hungary is even less democratic than Poland. Orban is a huge cynic who is incredibly corrupt when it comes to money management, which is not the case in Poland on the same scale. He thinks there is money to be made, money to buy cheap energy and money to buy votes. That’s why he mocks his friendship with Putin, but when it comes to voting for sanctions, the pressure is so great that he votes the same as everyone else.
Do you think there is a possibility of Poland leaving the EU?
I’m afraid it is. I don’t think the Polish government will say tomorrow that it wants to leave the EU. But if you constantly attack, deny the rule of law, blame Brussels for all your problems and act so irresponsibly, the EU will block the funds you need like water, which creates a certain climate. Look what happened with Brexit. There are some politicians in Poland who believe we will be better off outside the EU, and the rest agree, which may speed up the decision in the near future.
Will it be done unilaterally or through a referendum?
They will probably go to a referendum, but for now they create the right environment by saying that we are not sovereign or that the EU is costing us too much. The danger is real. Some politicians in the ruling coalition are fueling an openly anti-European and anti-EU mood.
Cities tend to look to other cities as models for inspiration. Did Barcelona inspire Warsaw during your tenure as mayor?
We work together in different organizations and look at what the other is doing to make our cities greener and more sustainable. I love how Barcelona achieves this, prioritizing public transport over cars polluting the city centre. In Warsaw we are trying to do the same.
But you will know it Ada Colau He was criticized so much for some of the measures he took, that he just lost the municipal elections.
Such measures are controversial, but if you really want to transform the city and fight climate change and pollution, there is no other way. You have to be brave and make controversial decisions.