“If there is no tactical, electoral, inorganic unity of the left group of forcesYolanda Díaz’s nominees Sumar and Podemos stand out.will rule the rightFormer Universities Minister Professor Manuel Castells spoke at El Periódico de España, from the Prensa Ibérica group, before presenting his book ‘Testimonio’ yesterday afternoon. Living history’ (Editor’s Alliance). Castells, a professor at Berkeley (California) and other prestigious universities, tell about their experiences in many parts of the world. Its final section discusses her time in the Pedro Sánchez Government, where she was recommended by Podemos, when the aforementioned Yolanda Díaz and Barcelona mayor Ada Colau had not yet distanced themselves from the leader of that party. We spoke with him at a hotel in Madrid about this situation and the election future, in addition to other aspects of his book.
The impression your book gives is that it is all over the world. Where does this passion for omniscience come from?
Get to know everyone, yes. And here I miss Iran but I didn’t want it to be three volumes! It is a combination of need and desire. I went into exile at a very young age, when I was twenty; They kicked me out of France and I had to run for the world because I had to run. On the other hand, intellectual curiosity, passion for social change.
And how do you see the world you are finding??
I am trying to give clues to events that I have experienced in the first person singular, many of which shed light on what we have experienced or lived badly. For example, in Russia or China. It is not history per se, but what has happened in some places and elsewhere. Today I can say that the world has gotten much worse for me. Dreams, illusions, hopes, in so many things and in so many forms, from the profound change expected in 1968 to the idea that the Cold War is over or the war itself, it’s as if the time has come. The machine was back and it was even worse. Much worse.
For this reason?
I am deeply worried. Let’s think about the evolution of the pandemics and what followed, the climate crisis and the war in Ukraine, an evil war that makes no sense as no war makes sense, and also with nuclear weapons. medium… And the idea of NATO to humiliate Russia, to encircle it… I agree that Putin is a barbarian and aggressor and naturally one should defend oneself against him. But be careful, because if we corner him as intended, he can use tactical nuclear bombs and anything can come of it. Then great hopes for universal harmony, protection of nature, global democracy may be lost.
Insults dominate as a form of discussion in Spain. There was a setback where I contradicted the hope that existed in the past.”
Also in Spain.
What I have experienced in Spain in recent years with an overly emotional, intolerant opposition is not democracy, but the democracy I fought for. Insults dominate as a form of discussion. There was a setback that I compare to the hope that existed in the past and is being lost today. One of the reasons I wrote this book, to provide some lessons or teachings from the history I have lived with the youth, with the new generations. Because if we know one thing about the future, it’s that young people will do it.
In the last part of his book, he talks about his time in the coalition government. For example, you felt humiliated in the Senate. Why did that tension come?
My experience in government is not described here as if it were a political book, but even so, it tries to describe a personal experience. I take this moment in Spain considering that this country has only been democratic in the Republic and then since 1977. For the rest, it lived under the pressure of autocracy and investigation for centuries and centuries. The Spanish right, which emerged from all this history, has always seen political power and the State as its own thing. Clearly, and in the democracy that was beginning to change with the socialist government of Felipe González, there was a real media-political conspiracy that would finally put an end to it and the progressive policies implemented at the time. When the right felt they had the situation under control, a dual phenomenon emerged: certain social movements and a political force like Podemos, which came together to form a governing coalition when Pedro Sánchez arrived. Something not seen in Europe. This is the historical reality I live in. A coalition of the left is something the Spanish right does not tolerate. From the beginning, this right saw this government as illegitimate, supported by a media presence that did not represent Spain but represented Madrid. Also from some conservative judges who were part of the old alliance between the Central State, the Church and the ideological media. very fast reforms Made from an alliance they thought could never exist in Spain. This aroused genuine hatred in some of the political-ideological elites, who had always thought that Spain belonged to them and suddenly realized that it was not, that there might be another alternative.
First of all, you drew the hate you speak of in the Senate. He says so in his book. How did you feel there?
I felt a deep sadness. Is this the democracy I’ve been fighting for my whole life? An undisputed democracy with only insults? Insult for daring to wear a feminist shirt in the Senate? All over the world, people wear what they think is theirs to defend. In my opinion, feminism is one of the historical changes that we have to defend inside and outside the Assembly, the LGTBi struggle and feminism. It didn’t affect me personally, but i felt sad for democracy, for institutions, because I believe there could be a backlash against democracy, as if people started saying “let them go…”.
How do you see the government that appointed him and the party that proposed him, Podemos, now clearly divided over the war in Ukraine?
We are Europeans and the defense of the European Union is central to everything we do. However, we should not lose sight of the struggle for peace. It’s fine to defend against Putin’s aggression, but the most important thing for a war is for him to stop. I think there are ideological inconsistencies in the government, but as in the Iraq war, there should be another, clearer stance in the government and its parties for peace. But frankly, I don’t see that movement here. Let’s stop the massacre first. And let’s support peace.
You present yourself here as a Latin American. Now Chile is in crisis, Lula has taken power in Brazil… How do you see the future of this world that is so close to you?
Latin America has experienced a democratization, but dictatorships continue. Cuba is a popular dictatorship, as my friend Ambassador Carlos Alonso Zaldívar said, that doesn’t mean there was a majority… But some were falling. The worst are those of Nicaragua and Venezuela. But the process of democratization of inequality is underway, and the appeal of democracy is lost amid violence and despair. In this context, other countries began to come to the fore. Brazil managed to bring the end of Bolsonaro, Colombia has Petro, which I have high hopes for. And then there’s my adopted country, Chile… They’ve allowed the constitution to be made and voted by the people, and President Boric now understands that things have to be done more slowly, that it cannot be left to the people, but also of time… Everything has to be more gradual. Social movements are engines of people.but everything must be done more slowly, less hastily.
I don’t think there are deep ideological differences between Podemos and Sumar in terms of rhythm rate or who is more revolutionary. I think there’s a device fight here.”
What lesson does all this teach those who suggested that you become ministers and now disagree about the pace of change in Spain? Yolanda Díaz and Ada Colau are part of a trend and Pablo Iglesias rowing in another direction… Will they meet?
Ada Colau and Yolanda Díaz are of the same movement. There are many supplements in Sumar. They agree that this kind of gradual, very reformist, non-revolutionary coalition must be very firm in going step by step. The big split is in Podemos. Podemos has a kind of historical legitimacy because it was indeed the only consolidated political group to emerge from the 15M and the social movements that drastically changed Spanish politics. Therefore, there is this double legitimacy: what can be done and who did where we came from. But I don’t think there are any deep ideological inconsistencies either about the pace of the rhythm or who is more revolutionary. I’m sorry, but I think there’s a device fight here. Who is in power, how much power is transferred to electoral lists, and funds are distributed between the newcomers and the party disrupting the corporate scene.. And I don’t panic too much, I would have panicked a lot if I thought it was unsolvable. It’s just a question of strategy and power. There is a basic truth and that is that no one is crazy in that constellation. If this array of forces, which is the only part of Yolanda Díaz, does not have a tactical, selective, inorganic unit; If there is no unity in all these, the right will prevail. And if there is, social democracy will re-govern the coalition with others. You must be very suicidal to break it, but we know the left has a strong tendency towards the death drive, whereas the right is very clear: hold the power for the usual suitors. And the left is getting in the way of how to bring about change.
My connection in government was with Pedro Sánchez. I feel like a social democrat open to the left movement”
You are a conciliatory man. Would he sit in the middle of two streams so that there would be one river?
The two currents need to come together. I feel closer to Yolanda Díaz, but I have excellent relations with Pablo Iglesias. I’ve always been independent, something that doesn’t have much respect. And I remember what I said in my book: My contact in government was Pedro Sánchez. I feel like a social democrat open to the left movement.
What brings Yolanda Díaz and Pedro Sánchez together?
They share a sincere and deep desire for multidimensional social change. They come from different political traditions and have different leadership skills. The PSOE is much less progressive than other forces born of social movements. They agree on key points, so it’s the tactic that sets them apart and they will never converge on that tactic. However, there may be deep contradictions in the project. Yolanda is getting more attention among teenagers. And because Pedro Sánchez is a social democrat, he brings together a wide spectrum of conservatives, but they are not right-wing.